common carrier truck module

Hello
Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
Please advise.
Thanks
Marty

common carrier truck module



I have the same issue. The majority of what we sell gets shipped via commom
carrier. I haven't found a module that will do this. I tell customers that
they will be contacted regarding shipping charges when their order is
processed.

Lisa

Blue Flower Creations
www.BlueFlowerCreations.com

Bio-OX International
www.Bio-OX.com

Kramer Industries, Inc.
www.KramerIndustriesOnline.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:00 PM
Subject: [mru] common carrier truck module


> Hello
> Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> (manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> Please advise.
> Thanks
> Marty
>

common carrier truck module



common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
cross-linked to the freight classification.

most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the job
done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of common
carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere, you
will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep looking...

just an opinion...

jonathan
Driftwood Network Services



At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
>Hello
>Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
>the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
>the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
>(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
>Please advise.
>Thanks
>Marty

common carrier truck module



Jonathon,

While I agree with your assessment of how things work, I
don't agree that a shipping module couldn't handle the job.
That is akin to saying you can't get there from here.

Of course a module can be written that lets you input all the
data you have about the carriers you use, what areas they
service, the rates they charge, and you can put in
classification details for different products, etc. Then at
runtime the module can take that information and cross
reference it with the information the customer has provided
and come up with a shipping cost that is more accurate than
the UPS modules rates.

All that said someone would still need to write the module,
and figure out how to make it users friendly enough for the
merchant so they would want to buy and use it.

-Jeff Huber

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
> that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
> of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
> cross-linked to the freight classification.
>
> most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the
job
> done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
> which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
> really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
common
> carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere,
you
> will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
looking...
>
> just an opinion...
>
> jonathan
> Driftwood Network Services
>
>
>
> At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> >Hello
> >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> >Please advise.
> >Thanks
> >Marty
>

common carrier truck module



Just a FWIIW...

I had talked with Scott at Sebenza Studios about this a while back. My
client decided not to go with it, but Scott had researched the possiblities
of integrating the Roadway online shipping into Merchant and felt that it
could be done very easily. If so, I would imagine that it would be possible
to take other carriers into account. You might want to contact him and see
what he thinks.

Scott - sorry we didn't use you, but maybe this gentleman can... :-)

Thanks!

Michael Schultz
Vice President of Operations
Virtualtech Web Site Design and Promotion, Inc.
<A HREF ="http://www.virtualtech.com">http://www.virtualtech.com</A>
"We Put The Pieces Together"

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; "Jonathan -
Driftwood" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> Jonathon,
>
> While I agree with your assessment of how things work, I
> don't agree that a shipping module couldn't handle the job.
> That is akin to saying you can't get there from here.
>
> Of course a module can be written that lets you input all the
> data you have about the carriers you use, what areas they
> service, the rates they charge, and you can put in
> classification details for different products, etc. Then at
> runtime the module can take that information and cross
> reference it with the information the customer has provided
> and come up with a shipping cost that is more accurate than
> the UPS modules rates.
>
> All that said someone would still need to write the module,
> and figure out how to make it users friendly enough for the
> merchant so they would want to buy and use it.
>
> -Jeff Huber
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
>
>
> > common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> > shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> > knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> > carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is
with
> > that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each
area
> > of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition
table,
> > cross-linked to the freight classification.
> >
> > most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the
> job
> > done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight
class
> > which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and
there's
> > really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> > throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> > Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
> common
> > carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere,
> you
> > will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
> looking...
> >
> > just an opinion...
> >
> > jonathan
> > Driftwood Network Services
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > >Hello
> > >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> > >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> > >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> > >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> > >Please advise.
> > >Thanks
> > >Marty
> >

common carrier truck module



common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
cross-linked to the freight classification.

most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the job
done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of common
carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere, you
will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep looking...

just an opinion...

jonathan
Driftwood Network Services



At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
>Hello
>Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
>the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
>the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
>(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
>Please advise.
>Thanks
>Marty

common carrier truck module



Marty,

I know of no module on the market that accomplishes
what you appear to want.

Regardless of my friend Jonathan's opinion to the
contrary, and as I said in a previous post responding
to a similar question, I see no reason why such a module
couldn't be written.

The module could be written to allow the merchant input
the relevant data on all the carriers they wish to use so
the module can make the best choice for the rate based
on both the settings input by the merchant and the
information provided by the customer.

Yes it would be fairly complex to be able to be truly useful
but even in the more complex formation it is still fairly
straight forward table associations issues to accomplish the
needs.

If you have a strong need for such a solution and nobody
on the list has something that will do what you want then
feel free to contact me via email or via phone
(760-742-1469) to discuss possible solutions.

-Jeff Huber


----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
> that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
> of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
> cross-linked to the freight classification.
>
> most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the
job
> done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
> which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
> really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
common
> carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere,
you
> will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
looking...
>
> just an opinion...
>
> jonathan
> Driftwood Network Services
>
>
>
> At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> >Hello
> >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> >Please advise.
> >Thanks
> >Marty
>

common carrier truck module



only problem there Jeff is that so many of the carriers still use
proprietary applications to get rate quotes. there are so many freight
classifications; some different region-per-region, that it gets pretty
wacky sometimes. the last company i dealt with this at averaged 1-2
proprietary Windows app upgrades per month to stay current with maybe 8-10
freight companies; and those were only the companies that offered a rate
application of any form.

but that is said in ignorance of what might have happened in the last
couple of years. Yellow Freight, Overnite and Roadway would probably offer
the best opportunity for some sort of standardized module, but they still
don't cover all regions or freight classifications. and unlike package
carriers like UPS & FedX, the prices for common carrier freight shipments
from 3 providers can vary 300% for the same item shipped to/from the same
location. and some freight companies will not handle residential or other
non-commercial deliveries.

and we won't touch the dimensional requirements some have for
non-palletized loads... heh... but if all the shipments are of a
standardized size and constant interstate freight classification, they
would at least be some regional rates you could go with...

but you are right Jeff that some sort of module might be created, and if
anyone could write the module its probably you (large smile).

jonathan
Driftwood Network Services



At 04:43 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
>Marty,
>
>I know of no module on the market that accomplishes
>what you appear to want.
>
>Regardless of my friend Jonathan's opinion to the
>contrary, and as I said in a previous post responding
>to a similar question, I see no reason why such a module
>couldn't be written.
>
>The module could be written to allow the merchant input
>the relevant data on all the carriers they wish to use so
>the module can make the best choice for the rate based
>on both the settings input by the merchant and the
>information provided by the customer.
>
>Yes it would be fairly complex to be able to be truly useful
>but even in the more complex formation it is still fairly
>straight forward table associations issues to accomplish the
>needs.
>
>If you have a strong need for such a solution and nobody
>on the list has something that will do what you want then
>feel free to contact me via email or via phone
>(760-742-1469) to discuss possible solutions.
>
>-Jeff Huber
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
>
>
> > common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> > shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> > knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> > carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
> > that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
> > of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
> > cross-linked to the freight classification.
> >
> > most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the
>job
> > done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
> > which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
> > really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> > throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> > Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
>common
> > carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere,
>you
> > will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
>looking...
> >
> > just an opinion...
> >
> > jonathan
> > Driftwood Network Services
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > >Hello
> > >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> > >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> > >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> > >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> > >Please advise.
> > >Thanks
> > >Marty
> >

common carrier truck module



Jonathan,

Is this deja vu?

Should I respond with the same message I sent
last time you sent such a message?

Now I accept that in this case the original post
does state "Like UPS" which could be construed
that they want a module that magically goes out
and figures the rates for them and I would agree
that is not realistic, though it could be done and
automatically return rates even more inaccurate
than the inaccurate UPS rates.

But if the purpose were to answer only literally
what was asked then the answer would be
something more along the lines of "There is no
such module available that I know of."

I will state as much with additional information
as a separate posting.

-Jeff Huber

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is with
> that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each area
> of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition table,
> cross-linked to the freight classification.
>
> most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get the
job
> done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight class
> which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and there's
> really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
common
> carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship somewhere,
you
> will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
looking...
>
> just an opinion...
>
> jonathan
> Driftwood Network Services
>
>
>
> At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> >Hello
> >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented to
> >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> >Please advise.
> >Thanks
> >Marty
>

common carrier truck module



Jonathan,

Maybe I am missing something, and if so it is
probably due to lack of practical experience in the
use of common carriers. Are you trying to tell me that
if I wanted to contract with a common carrier for
shipping services that I could not get prices for
delivery of certain items to certain destinations in
advance that they would honor by contract over some
period of time, but rather that the rates I would get
from them would dramatically change from day to
day?

If that is the case then I can't see how anyone can
reasonably do business with common carriers
because you have no way to forecast your shipping
expenses over time.

I am working under the assumption that common
carriers run a business that is intended to work with
other businesses and that they will contract for certain
rates under predetermined circumstances that are
meaningful and stable over time.

It is somewhat irrelevant how complicated the
circumstances for the rates are as long as the are
computable, because then the details of the rates can
be put into the software each time the contract is
negotiated with the common carrier or each time the
scheduled rate changes go into effect, and then the
system can do the job that such systems are meant to
do and make the complex computations at the
moment they are needed and provide the appropriate
information.

Maybe the disconnect between us is that you may
have been assuming a common carrier rate calculation
service that works with a module that does everything
in real time for the merchant whereas I was looking at
a more controlled module that does all the
calculations based on information input be the
individual merchant related to their particular
arrangements with the common carriers.

It is also possible that I may just see things a bit
differently than you or some developers. A merchant
only cares what will work for them, not what will
work for most people or the largest number of
people, whereas a developer thinking in terms of
developing a module for general release may think in
terms of making it generic enough to work for
everyone as opposed to a given merchant.

And I fall more in line with the individual merchant
whereas I would want to give them a solution that
does what they need/want for their particular
circumstances and doesn't have any extra stuff in it
and that is why my future plans are more involved in
providing solutions to merchants than to making or
selling software.

In summary I see this particular issue this way. If the
Merchant can know in advance the "rules" of what it
will cost him to send a given product to a given place
via a given common carrier then it should not be
difficult to write them a module to calculate those
rules based on data entered by them into the settings,
and by the customer at runtime.

-Jeff Huber

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
To: Jeff Huber <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> only problem there Jeff is that so many of the carriers still use
> proprietary applications to get rate quotes. there are so many freight
> classifications; some different region-per-region, that it gets pretty
> wacky sometimes. the last company i dealt with this at averaged 1-2
> proprietary Windows app upgrades per month to stay current with maybe 8-10
> freight companies; and those were only the companies that offered a rate
> application of any form.
>
> but that is said in ignorance of what might have happened in the last
> couple of years. Yellow Freight, Overnite and Roadway would probably
offer
> the best opportunity for some sort of standardized module, but they still
> don't cover all regions or freight classifications. and unlike package
> carriers like UPS & FedX, the prices for common carrier freight shipments
> from 3 providers can vary 300% for the same item shipped to/from the same
> location. and some freight companies will not handle residential or other
> non-commercial deliveries.
>
> and we won't touch the dimensional requirements some have for
> non-palletized loads... heh... but if all the shipments are of a
> standardized size and constant interstate freight classification, they
> would at least be some regional rates you could go with...
>
> but you are right Jeff that some sort of module might be created, and if
> anyone could write the module its probably you (large smile).
>
> jonathan
> Driftwood Network Services
>
>
>
> At 04:43 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
> >Marty,
> >
> >I know of no module on the market that accomplishes
> >what you appear to want.
> >
> >Regardless of my friend Jonathan's opinion to the
> >contrary, and as I said in a previous post responding
> >to a similar question, I see no reason why such a module
> >couldn't be written.
> >
> >The module could be written to allow the merchant input
> >the relevant data on all the carriers they wish to use so
> >the module can make the best choice for the rate based
> >on both the settings input by the merchant and the
> >information provided by the customer.
> >
> >Yes it would be fairly complex to be able to be truly useful
> >but even in the more complex formation it is still fairly
> >straight forward table associations issues to accomplish the
> >needs.
> >
> >If you have a strong need for such a solution and nobody
> >on the list has something that will do what you want then
> >feel free to contact me via email or via phone
> >(760-742-1469) to discuss possible solutions.
> >
> >-Jeff Huber
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
> >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
> >Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
> >
> >
> > > common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> > > shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> > > knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> > > carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is
with
> > > that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each
area
> > > of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition
table,
> > > cross-linked to the freight classification.
> > >
> > > most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get
the
> >job
> > > done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight
class
> > > which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and
there's
> > > really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> > > throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> > > Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
> >common
> > > carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship
somewhere,
> >you
> > > will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
> >looking...
> > >
> > > just an opinion...
> > >
> > > jonathan
> > > Driftwood Network Services
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > > >Hello
> > > >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> > > >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented
to
> > > >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> > > >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> > > >Please advise.
> > > >Thanks
> > > >Marty
> > >

common carrier truck module



i can only suggest you might consider evaluating shipping within the
context of common carrier interstate transport before deciding it to be a
simple task. it bears little resemblance to package shipping and is
calculated in an entirely different fashion. i am not sure how many common
carriers you have worked with, and exactly what region of the country they
are active in. but there is no panacea for a common carrier shipping
module. i have worked with the data trail of hundreds (if not thousands)
of national and international common carrier shipments. your common
carrier experience must be very different from my own.

however incredulous my opinion was to you, writing a shipping module as you
suggested may prove a much more challenging task than you have indicated.

jonathan



At 06:59 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
>Jonathan,
>
>Maybe I am missing something, and if so it is
>probably due to lack of practical experience in the
>use of common carriers. Are you trying to tell me that
>if I wanted to contract with a common carrier for
>shipping services that I could not get prices for
>delivery of certain items to certain destinations in
>advance that they would honor by contract over some
>period of time, but rather that the rates I would get
>from them would dramatically change from day to
>day?
>
>If that is the case then I can't see how anyone can
>reasonably do business with common carriers
>because you have no way to forecast your shipping
>expenses over time.
>
>I am working under the assumption that common
>carriers run a business that is intended to work with
>other businesses and that they will contract for certain
>rates under predetermined circumstances that are
>meaningful and stable over time.
>
>It is somewhat irrelevant how complicated the
>circumstances for the rates are as long as the are
>computable, because then the details of the rates can
>be put into the software each time the contract is
>negotiated with the common carrier or each time the
>scheduled rate changes go into effect, and then the
>system can do the job that such systems are meant to
>do and make the complex computations at the
>moment they are needed and provide the appropriate
>information.
>
>Maybe the disconnect between us is that you may
>have been assuming a common carrier rate calculation
>service that works with a module that does everything
>in real time for the merchant whereas I was looking at
>a more controlled module that does all the
>calculations based on information input be the
>individual merchant related to their particular
>arrangements with the common carriers.
>
>It is also possible that I may just see things a bit
>differently than you or some developers. A merchant
>only cares what will work for them, not what will
>work for most people or the largest number of
>people, whereas a developer thinking in terms of
>developing a module for general release may think in
>terms of making it generic enough to work for
>everyone as opposed to a given merchant.
>
>And I fall more in line with the individual merchant
>whereas I would want to give them a solution that
>does what they need/want for their particular
>circumstances and doesn't have any extra stuff in it
>and that is why my future plans are more involved in
>providing solutions to merchants than to making or
>selling software.
>
>In summary I see this particular issue this way. If the
>Merchant can know in advance the "rules" of what it
>will cost him to send a given product to a given place
>via a given common carrier then it should not be
>difficult to write them a module to calculate those
>rules based on data entered by them into the settings,
>and by the customer at runtime.
>
>-Jeff Huber
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
>To: Jeff Huber <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
>
>
> > only problem there Jeff is that so many of the carriers still use
> > proprietary applications to get rate quotes. there are so many freight
> > classifications; some different region-per-region, that it gets pretty
> > wacky sometimes. the last company i dealt with this at averaged 1-2
> > proprietary Windows app upgrades per month to stay current with maybe 8-10
> > freight companies; and those were only the companies that offered a rate
> > application of any form.
> >
> > but that is said in ignorance of what might have happened in the last
> > couple of years. Yellow Freight, Overnite and Roadway would probably
>offer
> > the best opportunity for some sort of standardized module, but they still
> > don't cover all regions or freight classifications. and unlike package
> > carriers like UPS & FedX, the prices for common carrier freight shipments
> > from 3 providers can vary 300% for the same item shipped to/from the same
> > location. and some freight companies will not handle residential or other
> > non-commercial deliveries.
> >
> > and we won't touch the dimensional requirements some have for
> > non-palletized loads... heh... but if all the shipments are of a
> > standardized size and constant interstate freight classification, they
> > would at least be some regional rates you could go with...
> >
> > but you are right Jeff that some sort of module might be created, and if
> > anyone could write the module its probably you (large smile).
> >
> > jonathan
> > Driftwood Network Services
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:43 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
> > >Marty,
> > >
> > >I know of no module on the market that accomplishes
> > >what you appear to want.
> > >
> > >Regardless of my friend Jonathan's opinion to the
> > >contrary, and as I said in a previous post responding
> > >to a similar question, I see no reason why such a module
> > >couldn't be written.
> > >
> > >The module could be written to allow the merchant input
> > >the relevant data on all the carriers they wish to use so
> > >the module can make the best choice for the rate based
> > >on both the settings input by the merchant and the
> > >information provided by the customer.
> > >
> > >Yes it would be fairly complex to be able to be truly useful
> > >but even in the more complex formation it is still fairly
> > >straight forward table associations issues to accomplish the
> > >needs.
> > >
> > >If you have a strong need for such a solution and nobody
> > >on the list has something that will do what you want then
> > >feel free to contact me via email or via phone
> > >(760-742-1469) to discuss possible solutions.
> > >
> > >-Jeff Huber
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
> > >
> > >
> > > > common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with only a
> > > > shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight without
> > > > knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight, which
> > > > carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate is
>with
> > > > that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight. each
>area
> > > > of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost definition
>table,
> > > > cross-linked to the freight classification.
> > > >
> > > > most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to get
>the
> > >job
> > > > done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of freight
>class
> > > > which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and
>there's
> > > > really not one single common carrier which covers all freight classes
> > > > throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway, sometimes
> > > > Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds of
> > >common
> > > > carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship
>somewhere,
> > >you
> > > > will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
> > >looking...
> > > >
> > > > just an opinion...
> > > >
> > > > jonathan
> > > > Driftwood Network Services
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > > > >Hello
> > > > >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping like
> > > > >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being presented
>to
> > > > >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> > > > >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario out.
> > > > >Please advise.
> > > > >Thanks
> > > > >Marty

common carrier truck module



I just realized something. Shouldn't this thread be on
the coders list instead?

Which lists got combined with which other list when
the big combo happened? Or did Miva never actually
combine the lists like I thought they were going to?

But anyway I digress.

Jonathan,

I admit fully and openly that I have no practical
experience in the use of common carriers. thus my use
of the phrase "probably due to lack of practical
experience in the use of common carriers". :) And
also I never said it would be simple I think I said I see
no reason such a module couldn't be written.
Obviously it isn't likely that it would be "Simple" to
make a module that would make it easy for merchants
to ship via common carrier or someone would be
likely to have written it already.

But what I am trying to understand from you, since I
get the feeling you do know something about it, is
whether or not there is a complex dynamic that I am
missing that would make it impossible, a huge pain in
the but, etc. to create a module that could be used by
a given merchant to deal with their common carrier
shipping needs. The assumption being no real time
communication with any common carrier to calculate
the rates.

Let me give you a scenario and see if you can
respond to it in a way that might lead me to a clearer
understanding.

If Company A sells 50 products and wants to be able
to ship them via common carrier can he actually get in
contact with various common carriers and find out
what their rate would be to ship the products to
various areas of the country? (say by zip or city or
something like that) And could they after shopping
around reasonably end up with a set of data that
would allow the creation of a matrix cross referencing
possible locations for shipment to products being
purchased resulting in available carriers and their rate
for the product?

If the merchant can't get the quote (Of at least a base
price and a small flexible range) in advance from his
location to a location like a given zip or city, or
something without having to say it will be going to bob
smiths house and have it be viable for more than right
now then you were right and this is all next to
impossible.

But if they can get a rate from Carrier X to ship from
location 1 to location 34 for $100, and to location 54
for $110, etc. Even if that $100 is a base that might
slip by a small amount one way or another, then that
seems to me to be the building block that the thing
can be built on.

Does any of this make sense or am I really just
missing something?

-Jeff Huber

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
To: Jeff Huber <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module


> i can only suggest you might consider evaluating shipping within the
> context of common carrier interstate transport before deciding it to be a
> simple task. it bears little resemblance to package shipping and is
> calculated in an entirely different fashion. i am not sure how many
common
> carriers you have worked with, and exactly what region of the country they
> are active in. but there is no panacea for a common carrier shipping
> module. i have worked with the data trail of hundreds (if not thousands)
> of national and international common carrier shipments. your common
> carrier experience must be very different from my own.
>
> however incredulous my opinion was to you, writing a shipping module as
you
> suggested may prove a much more challenging task than you have indicated.
>
> jonathan
>
>
>
> At 06:59 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
> >Jonathan,
> >
> >Maybe I am missing something, and if so it is
> >probably due to lack of practical experience in the
> >use of common carriers. Are you trying to tell me that
> >if I wanted to contract with a common carrier for
> >shipping services that I could not get prices for
> >delivery of certain items to certain destinations in
> >advance that they would honor by contract over some
> >period of time, but rather that the rates I would get
> >from them would dramatically change from day to
> >day?
> >
> >If that is the case then I can't see how anyone can
> >reasonably do business with common carriers
> >because you have no way to forecast your shipping
> >expenses over time.
> >
> >I am working under the assumption that common
> >carriers run a business that is intended to work with
> >other businesses and that they will contract for certain
> >rates under predetermined circumstances that are
> >meaningful and stable over time.
> >
> >It is somewhat irrelevant how complicated the
> >circumstances for the rates are as long as the are
> >computable, because then the details of the rates can
> >be put into the software each time the contract is
> >negotiated with the common carrier or each time the
> >scheduled rate changes go into effect, and then the
> >system can do the job that such systems are meant to
> >do and make the complex computations at the
> >moment they are needed and provide the appropriate
> >information.
> >
> >Maybe the disconnect between us is that you may
> >have been assuming a common carrier rate calculation
> >service that works with a module that does everything
> >in real time for the merchant whereas I was looking at
> >a more controlled module that does all the
> >calculations based on information input be the
> >individual merchant related to their particular
> >arrangements with the common carriers.
> >
> >It is also possible that I may just see things a bit
> >differently than you or some developers. A merchant
> >only cares what will work for them, not what will
> >work for most people or the largest number of
> >people, whereas a developer thinking in terms of
> >developing a module for general release may think in
> >terms of making it generic enough to work for
> >everyone as opposed to a given merchant.
> >
> >And I fall more in line with the individual merchant
> >whereas I would want to give them a solution that
> >does what they need/want for their particular
> >circumstances and doesn't have any extra stuff in it
> >and that is why my future plans are more involved in
> >providing solutions to merchants than to making or
> >selling software.
> >
> >In summary I see this particular issue this way. If the
> >Merchant can know in advance the "rules" of what it
> >will cost him to send a given product to a given place
> >via a given common carrier then it should not be
> >difficult to write them a module to calculate those
> >rules based on data entered by them into the settings,
> >and by the customer at runtime.
> >
> >-Jeff Huber
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
> >To: Jeff Huber <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 3:26 PM
> >Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
> >
> >
> > > only problem there Jeff is that so many of the carriers still use
> > > proprietary applications to get rate quotes. there are so many
freight
> > > classifications; some different region-per-region, that it gets pretty
> > > wacky sometimes. the last company i dealt with this at averaged 1-2
> > > proprietary Windows app upgrades per month to stay current with maybe
8-10
> > > freight companies; and those were only the companies that offered a
rate
> > > application of any form.
> > >
> > > but that is said in ignorance of what might have happened in the last
> > > couple of years. Yellow Freight, Overnite and Roadway would probably
> >offer
> > > the best opportunity for some sort of standardized module, but they
still
> > > don't cover all regions or freight classifications. and unlike
package
> > > carriers like UPS & FedX, the prices for common carrier freight
shipments
> > > from 3 providers can vary 300% for the same item shipped to/from the
same
> > > location. and some freight companies will not handle residential or
other
> > > non-commercial deliveries.
> > >
> > > and we won't touch the dimensional requirements some have for
> > > non-palletized loads... heh... but if all the shipments are of a
> > > standardized size and constant interstate freight classification, they
> > > would at least be some regional rates you could go with...
> > >
> > > but you are right Jeff that some sort of module might be created, and
if
> > > anyone could write the module its probably you (large smile).
> > >
> > > jonathan
> > > Driftwood Network Services
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 04:43 PM 6/5/2002, Jeff Huber wrote:
> > > >Marty,
> > > >
> > > >I know of no module on the market that accomplishes
> > > >what you appear to want.
> > > >
> > > >Regardless of my friend Jonathan's opinion to the
> > > >contrary, and as I said in a previous post responding
> > > >to a similar question, I see no reason why such a module
> > > >couldn't be written.
> > > >
> > > >The module could be written to allow the merchant input
> > > >the relevant data on all the carriers they wish to use so
> > > >the module can make the best choice for the rate based
> > > >on both the settings input by the merchant and the
> > > >information provided by the customer.
> > > >
> > > >Yes it would be fairly complex to be able to be truly useful
> > > >but even in the more complex formation it is still fairly
> > > >straight forward table associations issues to accomplish the
> > > >needs.
> > > >
> > > >If you have a strong need for such a solution and nobody
> > > >on the list has something that will do what you want then
> > > >feel free to contact me via email or via phone
> > > >(760-742-1469) to discuss possible solutions.
> > > >
> > > >-Jeff Huber
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Jonathan - Driftwood <[email protected]>
> > > >To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:19 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [mru] common carrier truck module
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > common carrier freight calculation it can't really be done with
only a
> > > > > shipping module. you can't calculate common carrier freight
without
> > > > > knowing the exact freight class of each item, the exact weight,
which
> > > > > carrier you use for that region/area, and what your discount rate
is
> >with
> > > > > that carrier; because no one pays published rates for freight.
each
> >area
> > > > > of the country/world would need its own carrier and cost
definition
> >table,
> > > > > cross-linked to the freight classification.
> > > > >
> > > > > most folks who ship common carrier use a handful of carriers to
get
> >the
> > > >job
> > > > > done. each has a time/price edge on some region or type of
freight
> >class
> > > > > which make them the logical choice for a particular shipment. and
> >there's
> > > > > really not one single common carrier which covers all freight
classes
> > > > > throughout the whole country/world. sometimes its Roadway,
sometimes
> > > > > Yellow Freight, sometimes Overnight Freightways; there's hundreds
of
> > > >common
> > > > > carriers out there... and where one will charge $150 to ship
> >somewhere,
> > > >you
> > > > > will probably find someone else who'll do it for $125 if you keep
> > > >looking...
> > > > >
> > > > > just an opinion...
> > > > >
> > > > > jonathan
> > > > > Driftwood Network Services
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 08:00 PM 5/31/2002, [email protected] wrote:
> > > > > >Hello
> > > > > >Is there any module that handles common carrier "truck" shipping
like
> > > > > >the the UPS module? If not how is the shipping price being
presented
> >to
> > > > > >the customer (please call for a quote?) and how is it calculated
> > > > > >(manually?). I'm finding it very difficult to work this scenario
out.
> > > > > >Please advise.
> > > > > >Thanks
> > > > > >Marty
>
>