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    #16
    Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

    To me, Rick's point is perfectly understandable from the Engine/VM standpoint. What MIGHT be of benefit to the community at large is for Miva to perhaps sponsor an OS repository for Miva based applications. For example, I have a project right now that could use a simple, robust CMS platform. I have some code (based on what Scott Raney did years ago) and I could easily see putting this up as OS in hopes of one day have a broader based mivascript based CMS tool.

    (And by sponsor, I mainly mean promoting it, supporting development (i.e., answering technical questions) etc. I think this would be a win-win...at least I can't think of the downsides<g>).
    Bruce Golub
    Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

    Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
    phosphormedia.com

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      #17
      Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

      That's a good idea Bruce, I'll have to ponder that one.
      Thanks,

      Rick Wilson
      CEO
      Miva, Inc.
      [email protected]
      https://www.miva.com

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

        Perhaps I underestimate the IP value of Mivascript to MM the company, but I do feel that some kind of freedom license would be needed before someone sits down and trusts their venture to Mivascript. Perhaps as Rick suggested, a model of licensing that allows the source code to be retained if MM would be more comfortable with that. I note Truecrypt (A disk encryption tool) is released under such a similar license to the pone suggested by Rick and is one of the most popular disk encryption tools around (Though I realise I am comparing chalk to cheese here given they are two massively different products).

        Of course that leaves the responsibility of development on the shoulders of MM so perhaps some democratic way of requesting features that may not be on the road map for Merchant but developers would like to see added would also be good.
        Last edited by keffa; 11-23-13, 04:05 PM.

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          #19
          Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

          As for features, I don't think, at least long term, that any feature an 'outside' developer would want, would not also benefit the Merchant product as well. E-commerce, or On-line stores will eventually be like floppy drives as 'online stores' morph into online experiences.
          Bruce Golub
          Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

          Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
          phosphormedia.com

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            #20
            Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

            Originally posted by Bruce - PhosphorMedia View Post
            On-line stores will eventually be like floppy drives as 'online stores' morph into online experiences.
            Good insight Bruce. Actually very powerful insight in my opinion. Totally changed my thinking on some things I am working on.

            For the previous discussion - I love having the compiler and engine. Gives me freedom from big brother - miva in this case - no offense Rick :-) Nothing will always meet my needs always, but at the least I know that what I have today will carry me a good while.
            William Gilligan - Orange Marmalade, Inc.
            www.OrangeMarmaladeinc.com

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              #21
              Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

              There's a reason we release the VM and Compiler with zero licensing
              Thanks,

              Rick Wilson
              CEO
              Miva, Inc.
              [email protected]
              https://www.miva.com

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                To me, I'd be happy if Miva Merchant reached out to help write/create/endorse expansion libraries for the engine. I know that was a big thing when the VM version came out in that external libraries could be added to expand functionality, but I have yet to see anything new get published (outside of the GD lib, but that was still an internal project so I don't think it counts).

                My main fear is that it would end up being huge quagmire:
                - Author writes extension lib and puts it in the wild. No one downloads it because they don't know what's inside. Author gives up writing extensions.
                - Author writes extension lib and puts it in the wild. Everyone downloads it but it's got hidden malware that auto clones all credit card info and send it back to author. MM gets the blame for being insecure and goes belly up.
                - To prevent above, MM says Merchant will only work on VM that only use MM-endorsed libraries. What's the point of developing for Empresa if you can't run Merchant at the same time? No one writes libraries.
                - Author writes extension lib and submits it to MM for review/approval. MM approves it, but it's buggy and now MM has to support it. Causes overhead so they no longer accept submissions.

                You get the point--Where is the sweet spot where people can make trustworthy extensions and make it worth their, and Miva Merchant's, while?

                Scott Mc

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                  #23
                  Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                  Some "open source" is more open than others. Before the compiler, the complete source code of Miva Merchant was available to every licensed user. But that was not "open source" as it's generally defined today. The users were not authorized to modify or redistribute any part of the code. Still, having access to it all was a tremendous resource for developers.

                  The source code is the ultimate documentation. A lot of important code is still missing from the LSK. Over time, this seems to be causing more and more obstacles for me in trying to provide solutions for my customers, who of course are MMCorp customers as well.
                  Kent Multer
                  Magic Metal Productions
                  http://TheMagicM.com
                  * Web developer/designer
                  * E-commerce and Miva
                  * Author, The Official Miva Web Scripting Book -- available on-line:
                  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...icmetalproducA

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                    #24
                    Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                    Kent this thread is about the Engine, not Miva Merchant. The Engine Source has never been exposed.
                    Thanks,

                    Rick Wilson
                    CEO
                    Miva, Inc.
                    [email protected]
                    https://www.miva.com

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                      I've been using Mivascript since 1999 when my ISP offered it as the only scripting language they supported with their hosting plans, when many hosting plans were just for static HTML.

                      I've written a CMS in Mivascript that works well, but due to the proverbial 'what happens if I get run over by a bus?' question, I've been working to migrate it to PHP. I wish I didn't have to. PHP has a lot of features Mivascript doesn't have, but it also has a lot of issues.
                      Mivascript is probably a much safer language for novices, due to some good security sandboxing whereas PHP security issues (whether as a result of the language itself, or bad implementation of code) are legendary.

                      Here in New Zealand, I knew of a couple of other Mivascripters, but I'm not sure if they're still doing it.
                      I've still got a long programming life ahead of me (I was in my 20s back in 1999) and would like to be doing Mivascript for some time to come, but I'm not sure how it will work out.

                      I'm actually working for someone else for the first time in my programming career, and of course they've never heard of Mivascript. It's all PHP work, and to be honest with tools like Netbeans, there's a lot more available to assist a developer, but I'd still love to be back Mivascripting if I could justify it.
                      Christopher Cookson
                      Create IT Powered by Webpression CMS

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                        #26
                        Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                        This has certainly been one of the biggest reasons for me moving away from Mivascript.
                        I think if the extensions themselves were released as source code you'd rule out 1. 2. 3.
                        You are then left with 4. which remains an issue, however if there are useful enough features in the library then maybe it would be worth supporting.
                        I'd love to see a 'Hello world' walk through of creating a Mivascript function library. Including how to compile it cross platform. (Currently I use Mia/Windows to test and Linux for live sites. That would get me excited about Mivascript again.
                        Christopher Cookson
                        Create IT Powered by Webpression CMS

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Mivascript usage beyond Miva Merchant

                          I'd love to see a 'Hello world' walk through of creating a Mivascript function library. Including how to compile it cross platform. (Currently I use Mia/Windows to test and Linux for live sites. That would get me excited about Mivascript again.
                          Jon Burchmore has something along those lines, he's going to see if he can dig it up for public release.
                          Thanks,

                          Rick Wilson
                          CEO
                          Miva, Inc.
                          [email protected]
                          https://www.miva.com

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