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$55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

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    $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

    Hi, my hosting company just sent a $55 bill (charging my CC as well) for 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee FEB.2015'. It made me so angry that they charged without even informing about what we have to comply with. I sent an angry email to my hosting company and they explained the charge as follows:

    "As you may recall, Miva announced changes to their licensing policies and notified you in January 2014 (and we followed up in February 2014). They introduced what they call “Miva Non-Compliance Fee” - (we call it a “penalty”) - for any stores that are not on the latest version of Miva. Any time they release a new version, however minor, you have three months to upgrade. If you do not upgrade within three months, they assess a $55/month Miva Non-Compliance Fee. They released Miva v9 in November, which puts the upgrade timeframe, or deadline, to the first week of February. Your store appears to be still on Miva v5.5, hence why your license key came up on the report and they just sent us an invoice for February, March, April and May for these “non-compliance” fees. It’s ridiculous, I know, and quite possibly illegal for them to charge these fees, but it’s between Miva and you - as you are the license key user, we are just passing on the Miva licenses/fees along. We received no notice as to which domains were “non-complaint” and would be billed, so this is as much of a surprise to us as it is to you… If you’d like to complain, which we strongly suggest, please contact Rick Wilson, the CEO of Miva, at [email protected] or 800.608.6482, as otherwise Miva will continue these predatory practices and billing after the fact, without giving anyone any notice ahead of time. A note sent in January 2014 is not enough when they release new versions and updates every other month.

    Please note that Miva just sent us an email last week announcing yet another bump to their Miva Non-Compliance Fee - the $55/month will remain in effect for domains that are 3+ months out of sync with the latest release, but if you do not upgrade within 12 months, the fee goes to $110/month. It’s basically a penalty for anyone who doesn’t want to upgrade to the latest and greatest version every month - synonymous with Microsoft charging fees if one did not upgrade to Windows 8 and preferred to stay on Windows 7 or XP, or Apple charging fees if you chose not to upgrade to iPhone 6 as soon as it’s released. In other words - this fee sounds completely bogus and ridiculous, and is most likely completely illegal - which is why we strongly suggest that you contact Miva to complain. Without complaints, Miva will only continue these predatory and quite likely illegal business and billing practices.

    I see that you did upgrade to v9, but not until February 26th, 3:25pm PST. Miva billed us for your February 2015 Miva Non-Compliance Fee, and this is the transaction you are seeing now. We only learned about this last week ourselves, when we received the invoices from Miva for February, March, April and May 2014 for a number of domains."


    This is just too much. Miva added $50 per seat charge and now this? This charge is just plain ridiculous and needs to go. These charges are getting out hand and these charges will turn people away from Miva. Miva should consider its roots which led to its popularity (including being a cost-effective solution) and focus on it if it wants to be successful. Illegally making money like this is not the solution and will not help.

    Hoping for the best from Miva as I love new 9 platform and ready-themes.
    Thanks
    Omar Waheed
    http://dar-us-salam.com
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Dar-us-Salam Publications
    Worship the Creator, not the Creations!

    #2
    Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

    This policy has been in place for almost 18 months already, the only caveat is our fees are $50/$100 (and your host is upping them to $55/$110).

    It's VERY easy to not pay this fee, simply upgrade. This whole topic has been covered extensively covered both on our blog and in our forums. Search Miva Merchant Non Compliance Fee.
    Thanks,

    Rick Wilson
    CEO
    Miva, Inc.
    [email protected]
    https://www.miva.com

    Comment


      #3
      Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

      Originally posted by Dar-us-Salam.com View Post
      Hoping for the best from Miva as I love new 9 platform and ready-themes.
      Are you saying you are already updated to MM9?
      Leslie Kirk
      Miva Certified Developer
      Miva Merchant Specialist since 1997
      Previously of Webs Your Way
      (aka Leslie Nord leslienord)

      Email me: [email protected]
      www.lesliekirk.com

      Follow me: Twitter | Facebook | FourSquare | Pinterest | Flickr

      Comment


        #4
        Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

        Originally posted by lesliekirk View Post
        Are you saying you are already updated to MM9?
        Yes, We upgraded to Miva 9 on Feb 26 and thus were charged and for 1 month of non-compliance.

        Miva should put up banners for this kind of thing in Miva admin where it says to Upgrade. There should be a warning that if Miva is not updated, they will get charged an extra fee even though this is a stupid way to make money. I get charged after 4 months is also ridiculous. If we didn't know about this charge and hadn't upgraded at that time, we would have been stuck with a large bill which is very very unfair.

        Businesses have circumstances where they can't afford to update as there are many modules that stop working and it is not fair to them. We had many problems as well after the upgrade some of which we are still having to deal with. Forcing people to upgrade like this is totally unfair.
        Last edited by Dar-us-Salam.com; 06-11-15, 12:10 PM.
        Omar Waheed
        http://dar-us-salam.com
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Dar-us-Salam Publications
        Worship the Creator, not the Creations!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

          Omar,

          This territory has been well worn, other platforms have different issues. Most of the current popular platforms simply upgrade you on their side and you have no choice, others like Magento are near impossible to upgrade (a la Miva 4.x), we chose this as an easy middle path.

          It is simply unsafe to run out of date software in this day and age, and we feel our NCF program was the ideal compromise to promote action by our customer base.

          What's far worse here is this host chose for some inexplicable reason to not bill their customers in a timely manner, even though we've billed them on a monthly basis, each month since February 2014 (the first month of these fees, almost 18 months ago).

          We clearly are as disappointed as our customers and have empathy for them, no one likes to be blindsided. However in this case, that blindsiding is 100% the fault of the host.

          We have different billing arrangements with different hosts and some hosts (like this one) choose to mark up the fee for their own benefit, so it would be impossible for us to message this via admin or any other method since we don't know how or what they're going to bill you.
          Last edited by Rick Wilson; 06-11-15, 12:21 PM.
          Thanks,

          Rick Wilson
          CEO
          Miva, Inc.
          [email protected]
          https://www.miva.com

          Comment


            #6
            Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

            Rick, Thanks for the explanation. I understand your position.

            I am now considering switching hosts. Is there a list of reliable Miva hosting companies that I can compare? Is there a thread about the different hosting companies?

            I found webnethosting.net, anyone know how reliable and how their service is?

            Thanks
            Omar Waheed
            http://dar-us-salam.com
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Dar-us-Salam Publications
            Worship the Creator, not the Creations!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

              Why wouldn't you host directly with us? Do you have some special need we can't accommodate?
              Thanks,

              Rick Wilson
              CEO
              Miva, Inc.
              [email protected]
              https://www.miva.com

              Comment


                #8
                Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                We moved to Miva hosting a year or so and it's been great. Their techs are available 24/7 and they know the software inside and out (no surprise there) unlike one of our previous hosts. We are a fairly low volume store with not great data storage needs and the price was as good as any I could find. Here's the pricing page. http://www.miva.com/ecommerce-hosting.
                Keith Oratz
                PrepareSmart, LLC - Emergency Preparedness Supplies and Professional Grade Search and Rescue Gear
                www.preparesmart.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                  Originally posted by Dar-us-Salam.com View Post
                  Rick, Thanks for the explanation. I understand your position.

                  I am now considering switching hosts. Is there a list of reliable Miva hosting companies that I can compare? Is there a thread about the different hosting companies?

                  I found webnethosting.net, anyone know how reliable and how their service is?

                  Thanks
                  Omar host with Miva. Not saying anything bad about the "others", but Miva just rocks in every way.
                  Dan

                  Girlfriends Lingerie - "Keeping It Sexy!"
                  Sexy Lingerie - Twitter - Facebook- Pinterest - YouTube

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                    I recommend Miva hosting. They've been good to us for 5+ years! Actually gotten better over the years too.
                    Larry
                    Larry
                    Luce Kanun Web Design
                    www.facebook.com/wajake41
                    www.plus.google.com/116415026668025242914/posts?hl=en


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                      Originally posted by wajake41 View Post
                      I recommend Miva hosting. They've been good to us for 5+ years! Actually gotten better over the years too.
                      Larry
                      Thanks everyone for your recommendations. I am now in touch with Sam Newbold from Miva to see what he can work out for us.

                      The limited bandwidth is a problem for us and so we have a second cheaper hosting account for loading images and PDF files. That runs around 250-300GB bandwidth/month. I am thinking of using the FTP Server Backup utility to transfer files there and load them up from there.
                      Omar Waheed
                      http://dar-us-salam.com
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      Dar-us-Salam Publications
                      Worship the Creator, not the Creations!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                        I will continue to beat this dead horse.
                        I am a one man operation, and if I install a patch that screws stuff up, I am dead. I have to deal with the "other people" who coded and host to figure out what is wrong.
                        I upgraded to 9 after getting hit with the Miva Merchant Non Compliance Fee.
                        One of the bigger issues is an update isn't really an update because I often still have to go back an update all kinds of scripts that don't get altered during the updates.

                        But searching through the blog on this subject gave me 20 pages of links, so can you point me specifically to where the rules are and what constitutes "Miva Merchant Non Compliance"?
                        I got hit last month because I had installed V9.004 path "bugfix-1", but not bugfix-4.
                        This seems pretty trivial. LIke if I go on vacation, I have to make sure to update the stroe because I might get hit with a non compliance fee.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                          Originally posted by sworcester View Post
                          I will continue to beat this dead horse.
                          I am a one man operation, and if I install a patch that screws stuff up, I am dead. I have to deal with the "other people" who coded and host to figure out what is wrong.
                          I upgraded to 9 after getting hit with the Miva Merchant Non Compliance Fee.
                          One of the bigger issues is an update isn't really an update because I often still have to go back an update all kinds of scripts that don't get altered during the updates.

                          But searching through the blog on this subject gave me 20 pages of links, so can you point me specifically to where the rules are and what constitutes "Miva Merchant Non Compliance"?
                          I got hit last month because I had installed V9.004 path "bugfix-1", but not bugfix-4.
                          This seems pretty trivial. LIke if I go on vacation, I have to make sure to update the stroe because I might get hit with a non compliance fee.
                          If you need to ensure that absolutely no issue whatsoever could occur when installing an update to the live site, you could make use of a development site copy, test it there first, then if things work well, install on the production site. A development copy of your live site is a one time fee if you're hosted with us. The development site can continue to exist and sit there indefinitely, so with each new update, you can apply it there first. However, development sites are treated the same with regards to compliance fees; they must be kept up to date as well.

                          Regarding going on vacation and getting hit with a fee, that could not occur unless you were on vacation for more than three months, as you will not see an NCF until a specific patch release, that has not been applied, has been available for over 90 days.

                          If you were not up to date but thought you were, I'd recommend checking in your store's domain settings to ensure it is set to check for updates either daily or at each login. You can find this setting by doing a search for "Domain Settings", click the match, then at the bottom of the page, look for "Check for upgrades".
                          Last edited by ILoveHostasaurus; 09-17-15, 07:27 AM.
                          David Hubbard
                          CIO
                          Miva
                          [email protected]
                          http://www.miva.com

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: $55/month 'Miva Non-Compliance Fee' for not upgrading??

                            I must assume you're at DotCom Host if you're getting a $55 fee (AFAIK they're the only ones who charge that).

                            Also if you got a fee for being on the wrong bug fix, that was definitely your host (not us) and we did not get or will we ever get that money.

                            Miva charges a non compliance fee when your site is out of date per PCI standards which is 90 days after a new public release. So I believe the current version you must be on to avoid NCF's is 9.0002 but I'm not in front of my Release Calendar.

                            I can assure you any version of 9.0004 passes our compliance check and so again if you got charged on 9.0004 for being on the wrong bug fix you should take that up with your third party host as that is not something we've charged them on your behalf.

                            For posterity, here are the "rules": http://www.miva.com/non-compliance-fee
                            Last edited by Rick Wilson; 09-17-15, 07:46 AM.
                            Thanks,

                            Rick Wilson
                            CEO
                            Miva, Inc.
                            [email protected]
                            https://www.miva.com

                            Comment

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